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If The Sannin were much weaker when they faced Hanzou than they were in their so

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Post time 2013-10-31 13:23:38 | Show all posts |Read mode
Easy, yep?.He only said that it would be impossible for one man to take out all of Amagakure by himself.
It's called working things out by logic, not flawed logic.

However, Pein did it .His Jutsu are Quite fearsome.
Hence why he still thinks it's impossible.

I dont agree on the Sarutobi thing.

This does imply that the Sannin had to be in their primes, or else Jiraiya wouldn't have disbelieved one man could do what the Legendary Three could not.
Jiraiya probably wouldn't think that Hanzou would not grow anymore, and Tsunade did not practice for years, Jiraiya was peeking at baths and writing ecchi books, and Orochimaru was spending years just for the body transfer jutsu and stuff, so I bet their growth in combat power was worse than it could be.

Honestly, you'd have to be an idiot to say that.
How the hell is that flawed logic?
Likeliness of equal growth is more likelier than Sannin growing much more than him.I sure as hell wouldn't in that case. Jiraiya said the 4th was the greatest ninja thus he Hanzou but seeing that he is dead, there is nobody else Jiraiya believes can defeat Hanzou one on one.


Originally Posted by HexaUnless Hanzou were the greatest ninja ever, that's not really the case. Based off of your analysis, Jiraiya would have contradicted himself if Hanzou 4th.

+reps :-)


Originally Posted by HexaHe's not necessarily considering every ninja he has ever heard about through all time and saying Hanzou is better than all of them.

Fact 1: Jiraiya believed it was impossible for one individual to take down Hanzou.I agree with you up until the 4th is brought into the discussion.Then the fodder ninja replies, Hehehe.


Originally Posted by Crimson MagicianOf course. He knew of the 4th, Orochimaru, 3rd .

Clearly, according to Jiraiya's reaction, it would've taken more than one individual to handle Hanzou even IF the Sannin were in their prime.
[/quote]

No single man can take down Hanzou.
.If The Sannin were much weaker when they faced Hanzou than they were in their so called prime, then Jiraiya would not have been as shocked that one man was able to take them out. If he felt those individuals had surpassed Hanzou, then he wouldn't have been so shocked that one man did it.

Anyway, your argument fails though I suppose it does put a bound on the Sannin's growth from that time.

I'm finding this stuff interesting.Rather, that's unlikely.

Sorry if my post was not clear enough. Of course it could even be the other way around.

He knew of the 4th, Orochimaru, 3rd .

Of course. Jumping right back into it, she was on equal grounds with a man equal to Kakashi, Konoha's One member of the Sannin (in prime)

Thereby, it would still be shocking to Jiraiya that one person could beat Hanzou without the Sannin being really even near their prime.

What We Know: The Sannin faced Hanzou once.

.

This is the truth, and mirrors what I just put in another thread. He is even called the God of Shinobi by his student Orochimaru. Now I have to search all these pages and merge them all. So it's flawed logic. His disbelief in one individual's ability to take down Hanzou makes it highly unlikely that he believed their was one individual, that he's aware of, that surpassed Hanzou in power.


Originally Posted by TriasPre-Prime Hanzou Pre-Prime Sannin
Hence,
Prime Hanzou Prime Sannin. At the very least, it suggest's that the Sannin weren't too far from their prime when that happened. and your mind wouldn't accept it as a possibility.

For Example: If you saw one man jump 10 feet in the air, if someone told you that another individual had done it, you wouldn't say 'impossible'.

The Sannin looked to be about 20 in that flashback.

My Conclusion: Jiraiya's belief that it was impossible for one individual to take down Hanzou was based on their inability to take him down when they faced him.

I definelty believe SarutobiHanzou

I also believe the Sannin did infact get stronger.Jiraiya is talking about Pein specifically in relation to the civil war.

Why are people assuming that the Sannin weren't in their prime or the Sannin reached their prime and surpassed Hanzou? We have no information to make such a conclusion.

Not individually. Of course it could even be the other way around.

Hexa, he knew Pein was the Akatsuki leader, so he had to know he was very powerful.

As I said, it just implies that the Sannin collectively at that time were better than any individual Sannin in today's time.

very true +rep to you. He knew of the 4th, Orochimaru, 3rd .

He's doubting what a man can do, that he's never met.

Yes, yes, yes, it's true, fine. this is a God we are talking about. At the very least, it suggest's that the Sannin weren't too far from their prime when that happened. and yet, he didn't think one man could achieve do what Pein managed to do.

Fact 2: Jiraiya had to ask question about Pein's abilities. Hexa, call me crazy, but that shouldn't be impossible that a man could solo Hanzou, if he knew shinobi that have equalled or surpassed Hanzou. If he felt those individuals had surpassed Hanzou, then he wouldn't have been so shocked that one man did it.Obviously, Jiraiya wasn't including some people.Sadly, that bound really isn't as strong as you're saying it is. However I still think that the fully prime Sannin would beat Hanzou though, and even Pain.

It seems to me that Jiraiya's remark meant that even in present time, Hanzou is the strongest ninja in the Narutoverse that Jiraiya knows of.Originally Posted by Mibu ClanNot individually. and yet, he didn't think one man could achieve do what Pein managed to do.

For Example: If you saw one man jump 10 feet in the air, if someone told you that another individual had done it, you wouldn't say 'impossible'.He's probably thinking of living ninja he knows now.

You know this how?

And even if your correct the Sannin may have gotten stonger in their prime, more so than Hanzou did.


Originally Posted by TriasHow the hell is that flawed logic?
Likeliness of equal growth is more likelier than Sannin growing much more than him.


Originally Posted by Crimson MagicianYou know this how?

And even if your correct the Sannin may have gotten stonger in their prime, more so than Hanzou did. My understanding of the situation is Hanzou is stronger than the Sannin (PERIOD) but seeing that that the 4th is dead and Hanzou was considered to be alive in Jiraiya's mind (until random fodder told him otherwise) that he wasn't part of the equation. As in Jiraiya nowthen.

If each Sannin had improved exponentially since they fought Hanzou, then it wouldn't have been thought impossible that one man could take Hanzou on by himself. and that should end the debate about the Sannin not being as powerful as they were to become. So this is probably just a disagreement of opinion.

Yes.

Pre-Prime Hanzou Pre-Prime Sannin
Hence,
Prime Hanzou Prime Sannin. and your mind wouldn't accept it as a possibility. So it's flawed logic.Rather, that's unlikely. If their was vast improvement by the Sannin, in their time together, we cannot be sure. I meant the Sannin as a team are Hanzou.
Jiraiya probably wouldn't think that Hanzou would not grow anymore, and Tsunade did not practice for years, Jiraiya was peeking at baths and writing ecchi books, and Orochimaru was spending years just for the body transfer jutsu and stuff, so I bet their growth in combat power was worse than it could be. If their was vast improvement by the Sannin, in their time together, we cannot be sure. It was not until a fair while after that they left Konoha, and they definatley improved in that time, by creating the legend of the Sannin to the world.

And I go by the fact that Hanzou WAS in his prime at that time, so any groth would not be on the same level of the Sannin, who still had yet to enter their prime and create their worldwide renowed legened.that doesn't imply that they weren't in their prime at all.

.

Well, we do know, in our first hand look in the Search for Tsunade arc, that Tsunade hime had been out of combat for nearly two decades.

Jiraiya never said it would be impossible for one man to take out Hanzou. With all the amazing shinobi that he's encountered in his life, why can't he accept that a shinobi would be able to solo Hanzou? How can he say Pein couldn't do that, if he knew nothing about him? Because of the 4th and the 3rd, he knows that their are shinobi who reach tremendous heights of shinobi excellence, yet he's doubting Pein without knowing anything about him .

Either way, Pein is stronger.

This does imply that the Sannin had to be in their primes, or else Jiraiya wouldn't have believed one man could do what the Legendary Three could not. At the very least, it suggest's that the Sannin weren't too far from their prime when that happened.

The Sannin could have been much weaker individually than they were in the prime yet still be better collectively than one of the Sannin today.

For Example: If you saw one man jump 10 feet in the air, if someone told you that another individual had done it, you wouldn't say 'impossible'. While it would still be an extremely impressive feat, you have seen it done before .

Conclusion: In Jiraiya's mind, it was impossible that a single individual could take down Hanzou, despite the fact that he knew nothing about Pein's abilities.
. DESPITE the fact that he's the leader of nine S-Rank criminals, one of which can shoot fire from his eyes, to burn through a fire-breathing frog.He's probably thinking of living ninja he knows now.

My Conclusion: Jiraiya's belief that it was impossible for one individual to take down Hanzou was based on their inability to take him down when they faced him.
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